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	<title>Comments on: Black men in college, briefly</title>
	<atom:link href="http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: SuzieQ</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5285</link>
		<dc:creator>SuzieQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5285</guid>
		<description>If your "honorable" definition of machismo includes wife-beating, impregnating women and then abandoning them, gay bashing and the violent, drug-impacted fraternity of the 'hood, then you can have it.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your &#8220;honorable&#8221; definition of machismo includes wife-beating, impregnating women and then abandoning them, gay bashing and the violent, drug-impacted fraternity of the &#8216;hood, then you can have it.</p>
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		<title>By: linden</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5284</link>
		<dc:creator>linden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5284</guid>
		<description>I doubt that's true.  I think the issue comes down to the fact that many people probably have a hard time understanding how or why a teacher would tell such a thing to a student.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt that&#8217;s true.  I think the issue comes down to the fact that many people probably have a hard time understanding how or why a teacher would tell such a thing to a student.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Random</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5283</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Random</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2004 03:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5283</guid>
		<description>Quoth j.c.:

Why is so terribly wrong for society to destroy young girl’s hearts and minds with images of beauty in the media but not at all a problem when schoolteachers – teachers speaking directly to and specifically about individual students – tell the poor kids that they cannot learn?

Answer:

Because beauty is considered cool &#38; learning isn't. Tell 'em they can't learn, &#38; they'll sigh with relief because they're officially not geeks. Tell 'em they're ugly, &#38; the little tin god Self-Esteem will shriek in outrage. Must keep one's priorities straight, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoth j.c.:</p>
<p>Why is so terribly wrong for society to destroy young girl’s hearts and minds with images of beauty in the media but not at all a problem when schoolteachers – teachers speaking directly to and specifically about individual students – tell the poor kids that they cannot learn?</p>
<p>Answer:</p>
<p>Because beauty is considered cool &amp; learning isn&#8217;t. Tell &#8216;em they can&#8217;t learn, &amp; they&#8217;ll sigh with relief because they&#8217;re officially not geeks. Tell &#8216;em they&#8217;re ugly, &amp; the little tin god Self-Esteem will shriek in outrage. Must keep one&#8217;s priorities straight, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5282</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2004 22:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5282</guid>
		<description>My black former coworker (I left that job Wednesday, ha ha) has a son the age of my daughter (16).  He goes to an all-black high school.  She told me that the teachers tried to make him sign up for honors English this year and he wouldn't do it.  He started out in the standard English class, and the honors English teacher came into the classroom during the first week, told him to get his stuff, and physically moved him into her room.  So he was reading the same novels my daughter was at the same time:  "The Scarlett Letter" and all the rest.  (We have district-wide standards as to what "honors" means.)  And my coworker said he actually decided that he liked being in that class.  It's just not true that all black males in inner-city public schools are expected not to do well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My black former coworker (I left that job Wednesday, ha ha) has a son the age of my daughter (16).  He goes to an all-black high school.  She told me that the teachers tried to make him sign up for honors English this year and he wouldn&#8217;t do it.  He started out in the standard English class, and the honors English teacher came into the classroom during the first week, told him to get his stuff, and physically moved him into her room.  So he was reading the same novels my daughter was at the same time:  &#8220;The Scarlett Letter&#8221; and all the rest.  (We have district-wide standards as to what &#8220;honors&#8221; means.)  And my coworker said he actually decided that he liked being in that class.  It&#8217;s just not true that all black males in inner-city public schools are expected not to do well.</p>
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		<title>By: j.c.</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5281</link>
		<dc:creator>j.c.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5281</guid>
		<description>"Many blacks believe the reasons whites bury their dead quickly is because white people turn black after death if not buried quickly." I have never heard or overheard this - not even the part about white people burying their dead quickly. (I can see how the "bury quickly" part might be said of Jews, I guess.)

I am not sure that I would want to bring my books to school if my TEACHER was going to make snide remarks about why did I bother instead of trying to help me from, oh, starting in the fifth grade and continuing on through when I was shunted to special ed or worse. I don't think they forget to bring books to school, I think they're afraid to be seen trying when they have been told over and over again that they will fail. Seems like this argument –not wanting to try for fear of not doing well or failing – is acceptable when we talk about nerdy kids being subjected to PE. Why doesn’t it apply here? 

Having gone to mixed schools where black and brown students, poor students, and students with absentee parents were treated like, at best, interlopers and gate crashers, I empathize with many of the coping strategies these guys come up with. 

Why is so terribly wrong for society to destroy young girl’s hearts and minds with images of beauty in the media but not at all a problem when schoolteachers – teachers speaking directly to and specifically about  individual students – tell the poor kids that they cannot learn?

I'm not saying that I buy the whole beauty myth thing. I'm just baffled because the average TV talking head or magazine pieces or cocktail party chatter accepts one pretty much entirely and rejects the other totally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Many blacks believe the reasons whites bury their dead quickly is because white people turn black after death if not buried quickly.&#8221; I have never heard or overheard this - not even the part about white people burying their dead quickly. (I can see how the &#8220;bury quickly&#8221; part might be said of Jews, I guess.)</p>
<p>I am not sure that I would want to bring my books to school if my TEACHER was going to make snide remarks about why did I bother instead of trying to help me from, oh, starting in the fifth grade and continuing on through when I was shunted to special ed or worse. I don&#8217;t think they forget to bring books to school, I think they&#8217;re afraid to be seen trying when they have been told over and over again that they will fail. Seems like this argument –not wanting to try for fear of not doing well or failing – is acceptable when we talk about nerdy kids being subjected to PE. Why doesn’t it apply here? </p>
<p>Having gone to mixed schools where black and brown students, poor students, and students with absentee parents were treated like, at best, interlopers and gate crashers, I empathize with many of the coping strategies these guys come up with. </p>
<p>Why is so terribly wrong for society to destroy young girl’s hearts and minds with images of beauty in the media but not at all a problem when schoolteachers – teachers speaking directly to and specifically about  individual students – tell the poor kids that they cannot learn?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that I buy the whole beauty myth thing. I&#8217;m just baffled because the average TV talking head or magazine pieces or cocktail party chatter accepts one pretty much entirely and rejects the other totally.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff wright</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5280</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2004 01:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5280</guid>
		<description>George, your points are all well taken and I accept the numbers.  However, to me, the most important (and gratifying) lesson to be learned from the military experience is that black men can be equal and indeed thrive in a traditionally white institution that places a premium on education, discipline and leadership skills.  In other words, they're not inherently inferior, even in an environment where standards are not compromised—e.g., affirmative action, etc.—which is darn good news.  

My point was and is that these guys can get the job done.  The challenge is how to convince more of them of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, your points are all well taken and I accept the numbers.  However, to me, the most important (and gratifying) lesson to be learned from the military experience is that black men can be equal and indeed thrive in a traditionally white institution that places a premium on education, discipline and leadership skills.  In other words, they&#8217;re not inherently inferior, even in an environment where standards are not compromised—e.g., affirmative action, etc.—which is darn good news.  </p>
<p>My point was and is that these guys can get the job done.  The challenge is how to convince more of them of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Odell</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5279</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Odell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5279</guid>
		<description>Stephen wrote: &lt;i&gt;White, educated people are usually absolutely sexless, particularly in the eyes of traditional, religious black people.&lt;/i&gt;

Whoa....this gives a whole new meaning to the expression "White Man's Burden"!

Be that as it may, what's this got to do with education and its value, other than somebody perhaps engaging in A=A thinking, viz.: valuing education = acting "white" = over-intellectualization = sexlessness?

&lt;i&gt;Sex is dying in the white community, and I do mean the liberal white community.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, so it's not &lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt; bad then.... ;-)

Ross wrote: &lt;i&gt;Many blacks believe the reasons whites bury their dead quickly is because white people turn black after death if not buried quickly.&lt;/i&gt;

Eventually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen wrote: <i>White, educated people are usually absolutely sexless, particularly in the eyes of traditional, religious black people.</i></p>
<p>Whoa&#8230;.this gives a whole new meaning to the expression &#8220;White Man&#8217;s Burden&#8221;!</p>
<p>Be that as it may, what&#8217;s this got to do with education and its value, other than somebody perhaps engaging in A=A thinking, viz.: valuing education = acting &#8220;white&#8221; = over-intellectualization = sexlessness?</p>
<p><i>Sex is dying in the white community, and I do mean the liberal white community.</i></p>
<p>Oh, so it&#8217;s not <b>all</b> bad then&#8230;. <img src='http://joannejacobs.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Ross wrote: <i>Many blacks believe the reasons whites bury their dead quickly is because white people turn black after death if not buried quickly.</i></p>
<p>Eventually.</p>
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		<title>By: George L</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5278</link>
		<dc:creator>George L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5278</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

The armed forces have a comparitively good record with minorities, but don't overstate it.  They do their best to avoid felons, high school drop outs and GEDs. These categories have a much higher failure rate. The Army takes them when it needs bodies to put make their enlistment quotas. The Army loses one third of their troops before they complete their initial enlistment.  They keep the ones who accept its values and remove those who do not.  The Army decides who they get rid of, not the troops.  Students decide when they have enough of school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>The armed forces have a comparitively good record with minorities, but don&#8217;t overstate it.  They do their best to avoid felons, high school drop outs and GEDs. These categories have a much higher failure rate. The Army takes them when it needs bodies to put make their enlistment quotas. The Army loses one third of their troops before they complete their initial enlistment.  They keep the ones who accept its values and remove those who do not.  The Army decides who they get rid of, not the troops.  Students decide when they have enough of school.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike James</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5277</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5277</guid>
		<description>"&lt;i&gt;Is it that white people are sexless or that they're just more publically repressed?"&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps a more relevant term for this discussion, rather than "sexless" or "publically repressed", would be &lt;b&gt;self-control&lt;/b&gt;. People with self-control, or self-discipline, tend to be more successful in all walks of life, because they don't immediately gratify every little desire which flits through their mind. They have a more highly developed ability to focus on goals, and attain their goals because they do not easily allow themselves to become distracted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>Is it that white people are sexless or that they&#8217;re just more publically repressed?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Perhaps a more relevant term for this discussion, rather than &#8220;sexless&#8221; or &#8220;publically repressed&#8221;, would be <b>self-control</b>. People with self-control, or self-discipline, tend to be more successful in all walks of life, because they don&#8217;t immediately gratify every little desire which flits through their mind. They have a more highly developed ability to focus on goals, and attain their goals because they do not easily allow themselves to become distracted.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5276</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2003/12/30/black-men-in-college-briefly/#comment-5276</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And blacks, in general, see the white community as absolutely sexless.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, the decription I have more often heard is soulless. There are cultural differences between blacks and whites that some people on both sides interpret negatively.

Whites see that blacks tend be much more boisterous and that is taken as a sign of low intellegence or of being primitive. Blacks on the other hand tend to think that whites are lacking spirit (soul) because of how restrained we tend to act. The way this difference manifest itself during religious services is interesting to observe.

Whites traditionally bury their dead shortly after death. Blacks wait for a while. Many blacks believe the reasons whites bury their dead quickly is because white people turn black after death if not buried quickly. (Yes, I was surprised when a black friend asked me if that rumor was true.) As an aside, reasons for blacks waiting to bury their dead include the wider dispersal or black families made it where it took longer for everyone to arrive and many of the funeral homes required blacks to pay in advance and the money had to be raised before the funeral.

Dang, I lost track of time and I am late leaving to pick my wife up from work!

Happy New Year,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And blacks, in general, see the white community as absolutely sexless.</i></p>
<p>Actually, the decription I have more often heard is soulless. There are cultural differences between blacks and whites that some people on both sides interpret negatively.</p>
<p>Whites see that blacks tend be much more boisterous and that is taken as a sign of low intellegence or of being primitive. Blacks on the other hand tend to think that whites are lacking spirit (soul) because of how restrained we tend to act. The way this difference manifest itself during religious services is interesting to observe.</p>
<p>Whites traditionally bury their dead shortly after death. Blacks wait for a while. Many blacks believe the reasons whites bury their dead quickly is because white people turn black after death if not buried quickly. (Yes, I was surprised when a black friend asked me if that rumor was true.) As an aside, reasons for blacks waiting to bury their dead include the wider dispersal or black families made it where it took longer for everyone to arrive and many of the funeral homes required blacks to pay in advance and the money had to be raised before the funeral.</p>
<p>Dang, I lost track of time and I am late leaving to pick my wife up from work!</p>
<p>Happy New Year,</p>
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