<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Testing is murder</title>
	<atom:link href="http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11788</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2004 01:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11788</guid>
		<description>Joanne Jacobs still gets an F in comprehension.

McKenna's argument is that NCLB could lead to -another- Columbine.  And her evidence that higher test scores won't prevent such events is that Columbine itself had high test scores.

There's plenty of possible holes to be picked in this argument.  But the criticisms made in the post are emphatically not among them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joanne Jacobs still gets an F in comprehension.</p>
<p>McKenna&#8217;s argument is that NCLB could lead to -another- Columbine.  And her evidence that higher test scores won&#8217;t prevent such events is that Columbine itself had high test scores.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s plenty of possible holes to be picked in this argument.  But the criticisms made in the post are emphatically not among them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11787</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2004 14:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11787</guid>
		<description>Jim C.,
The information you were looking for is:

McKenna, Margaret 
President
President's Office
phone 617-349-8510 
e-mail mckenna@mail.lesley.edu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim C.,<br />
The information you were looking for is:</p>
<p>McKenna, Margaret<br />
President<br />
President&#8217;s Office<br />
phone 617-349-8510<br />
e-mail <a href="mailto:mckenna@mail.lesley.edu">mckenna@mail.lesley.edu</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11786</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2004 12:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11786</guid>
		<description>Jim C,

I am an elementary school teacher in Texas and I can tell you schools have no time whatsoever to teach things like manners and conflict resolution.  Its ALL about the test and nothing else.  The funny part is Texas schools are not all that great, but now they're being used as the model to base all of our schools on.  I can't remember who wrote the article but its called "The Myth of the Miracle in Texas Schools" and it should be an eye opener for most people.  

I've talked to lots of people who think the state of America's schools are the fault of lazy teachers who think teachers have to be forced to do their jobs.  The fact is, our schools are a reflection of our society and all the testing in the world will not change that fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim C,</p>
<p>I am an elementary school teacher in Texas and I can tell you schools have no time whatsoever to teach things like manners and conflict resolution.  Its ALL about the test and nothing else.  The funny part is Texas schools are not all that great, but now they&#8217;re being used as the model to base all of our schools on.  I can&#8217;t remember who wrote the article but its called &#8220;The Myth of the Miracle in Texas Schools&#8221; and it should be an eye opener for most people.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve talked to lots of people who think the state of America&#8217;s schools are the fault of lazy teachers who think teachers have to be forced to do their jobs.  The fact is, our schools are a reflection of our society and all the testing in the world will not change that fact.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Just a Dad</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11785</link>
		<dc:creator>Just a Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2004 11:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11785</guid>
		<description>More than 30 years ago, my fourth grade teacher spent a month going through a series of booklets about how to relate to other people successfully.  The lessons covered such topics as don't celebrate too hard when you win a game (e.g. basketball), remember that everybody makes mistakes, and yes, learn to show respect for the other's point when arguing.  While it seemed silly to me at the time, there's no doubt that these "soft" lessons helped me get through a very difficult adolescence.  I wasn't Eric Harris, but I did have a lot of anger and depression to deal with, and these kinds of lessons helped keep me from withdrawing completely from society the way that he did.  

I don't know to what extent elementary schools even attempt this kind of thing anymore, or how effective they are when they do.  But, assuming that there are schools still doing this, I can certainly see how the pressure of laws like NCLB could lead to less of it being taught than before.  The time that Miss Yamamoto spent teaching me character and politeness made me a better person, but I doubt that it improved any of my test scores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More than 30 years ago, my fourth grade teacher spent a month going through a series of booklets about how to relate to other people successfully.  The lessons covered such topics as don&#8217;t celebrate too hard when you win a game (e.g. basketball), remember that everybody makes mistakes, and yes, learn to show respect for the other&#8217;s point when arguing.  While it seemed silly to me at the time, there&#8217;s no doubt that these &#8220;soft&#8221; lessons helped me get through a very difficult adolescence.  I wasn&#8217;t Eric Harris, but I did have a lot of anger and depression to deal with, and these kinds of lessons helped keep me from withdrawing completely from society the way that he did.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know to what extent elementary schools even attempt this kind of thing anymore, or how effective they are when they do.  But, assuming that there are schools still doing this, I can certainly see how the pressure of laws like NCLB could lead to less of it being taught than before.  The time that Miss Yamamoto spent teaching me character and politeness made me a better person, but I doubt that it improved any of my test scores.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim C.</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11784</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2004 05:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11784</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Ross&lt;/b&gt;:

I did go to Lesley U.'s website before posting my comment in an unsuccessful attempt to find her email address so I could comment to her directly.  I didn't bother with her background.

I think something Orwell said in his essay "Notes On Nationalism" (which I recommend highly, btw) applies to McKenna: "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool." I respect education, but having a lot of letters after one's name is no guarantee he/she won't come up with something stupid.  Rather than having her degrees give credence to her idea, her asinine idea calls the value of those degrees into question.

A rich man wanted to donate a million dollars to a college.  The trustees were very enthusiastic until the man made a condition: he wanted his horse to get an honorary Ph.D. as a Doctor of Transportation.  The trustees discussed this among themselves and were very dismayed.  However, one of them observed, "You know, this would only be the first time we've given a Ph.D. to a &lt;em&gt;whole&lt;/em&gt; horse."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Ross</b>:</p>
<p>I did go to Lesley U.&#8217;s website before posting my comment in an unsuccessful attempt to find her email address so I could comment to her directly.  I didn&#8217;t bother with her background.</p>
<p>I think something Orwell said in his essay &#8220;Notes On Nationalism&#8221; (which I recommend highly, btw) applies to McKenna: &#8220;One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.&#8221; I respect education, but having a lot of letters after one&#8217;s name is no guarantee he/she won&#8217;t come up with something stupid.  Rather than having her degrees give credence to her idea, her asinine idea calls the value of those degrees into question.</p>
<p>A rich man wanted to donate a million dollars to a college.  The trustees were very enthusiastic until the man made a condition: he wanted his horse to get an honorary Ph.D. as a Doctor of Transportation.  The trustees discussed this among themselves and were very dismayed.  However, one of them observed, &#8220;You know, this would only be the first time we&#8217;ve given a Ph.D. to a <em>whole</em> horse.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11783</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2004 03:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11783</guid>
		<description>Well, McKenna thinks NCLB leads to a focus on test prep above all, alienating students and creating the conditions for a Columbine massacre.  But since Columbine preceded NCLB, then the conditions that led to Columbine preceded NCLB.  So perhaps NCLB is irrelevant to her argument.  Which is bogus.

By focusing attention on students who've been "left behind" academically, NCLB may reduce school violence by reducing the incredible frustration felt by students who can't read in middle and high school.  Frustrated, failing students are far more likely to engage in violent and self-destructive behavior than are successful students.  This has nothing to do with Eric Harris, of course, but it's highly relevant to the less homicidal violence that disrupts many schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, McKenna thinks NCLB leads to a focus on test prep above all, alienating students and creating the conditions for a Columbine massacre.  But since Columbine preceded NCLB, then the conditions that led to Columbine preceded NCLB.  So perhaps NCLB is irrelevant to her argument.  Which is bogus.</p>
<p>By focusing attention on students who&#8217;ve been &#8220;left behind&#8221; academically, NCLB may reduce school violence by reducing the incredible frustration felt by students who can&#8217;t read in middle and high school.  Frustrated, failing students are far more likely to engage in violent and self-destructive behavior than are successful students.  This has nothing to do with Eric Harris, of course, but it&#8217;s highly relevant to the less homicidal violence that disrupts many schools.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SImon</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11782</link>
		<dc:creator>SImon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2004 00:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11782</guid>
		<description>McKenna may be a moron, but Jacobs is eager to prove herself equally moronic, by claiming that McKenna is blaming Columbine on the No Child Left Behind Act.

She says nothing of the sort.

She says that the NCLB Act proves that we haven't applied the lessons of Columbine.

"But some of the most important lessons of Columbine have been all but forgotten - left behind, so to speak, in no small measure because of another educational development of recent years: the No Child Left Behind Act."

This may be wrong, tendentious, etc.  But it isn't an illogical argument or achronological, as Jacobs claims.

Why fight something you believe is idiocy by being as idiotic in your turn?

Ms. Jacobs gets an F in her comprehension test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McKenna may be a moron, but Jacobs is eager to prove herself equally moronic, by claiming that McKenna is blaming Columbine on the No Child Left Behind Act.</p>
<p>She says nothing of the sort.</p>
<p>She says that the NCLB Act proves that we haven&#8217;t applied the lessons of Columbine.</p>
<p>&#8220;But some of the most important lessons of Columbine have been all but forgotten - left behind, so to speak, in no small measure because of another educational development of recent years: the No Child Left Behind Act.&#8221;</p>
<p>This may be wrong, tendentious, etc.  But it isn&#8217;t an illogical argument or achronological, as Jacobs claims.</p>
<p>Why fight something you believe is idiocy by being as idiotic in your turn?</p>
<p>Ms. Jacobs gets an F in her comprehension test.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11781</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2004 20:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11781</guid>
		<description>Ross said, "A survey of university professors found that 94% thought they were above average at their job...."

They aren't comparing themselves to the general population, but to other college professors.  So it is a telling statistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross said, &#8220;A survey of university professors found that 94% thought they were above average at their job&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>They aren&#8217;t comparing themselves to the general population, but to other college professors.  So it is a telling statistic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11780</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2004 20:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11780</guid>
		<description>Ross, the fact that 94% of college professors think they are above average doesn't prove your point because they are above average, otherwise they wouldn't be college professors.  Their education puts them into the "above average" category before they ever set put into a college classroom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross, the fact that 94% of college professors think they are above average doesn&#8217;t prove your point because they are above average, otherwise they wouldn&#8217;t be college professors.  Their education puts them into the &#8220;above average&#8221; category before they ever set put into a college classroom.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joanne Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11779</link>
		<dc:creator>Joanne Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2004 18:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/04/30/testing-is-murder/#comment-11779</guid>
		<description>I recommend Dave Cullen's story in Slate.  He's covered Columbine extensively and concludes, based on the FBI analysis, that bullying played no role in the massacre.  Eric Harris, child of a middle-class two-parent family, was a vicious psychopath.  He left diaries detailing all the many categories of people he hated; it included virtually everyone.   Dylan Klebold was his follower.  (Think Leopold and Loeb.)  

Obviously, they did not kill because they spent too much time prepping for tests and had too few electives. Famously, they were enrolled in a bowling class, though they didn't show up the day of the massacre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend Dave Cullen&#8217;s story in Slate.  He&#8217;s covered Columbine extensively and concludes, based on the FBI analysis, that bullying played no role in the massacre.  Eric Harris, child of a middle-class two-parent family, was a vicious psychopath.  He left diaries detailing all the many categories of people he hated; it included virtually everyone.   Dylan Klebold was his follower.  (Think Leopold and Loeb.)  </p>
<p>Obviously, they did not kill because they spent too much time prepping for tests and had too few electives. Famously, they were enrolled in a bowling class, though they didn&#8217;t show up the day of the massacre.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
