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	<title>Comments on: The e-rate boondoggle</title>
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	<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rita C.</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13272</link>
		<dc:creator>Rita C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2004 15:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13272</guid>
		<description>Without windows, all my plants would die.  How dismal.

I get plenty of hugs under the present system.

I don't teach from my desk, so you don't have to bother putting anything under it.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without windows, all my plants would die.  How dismal.</p>
<p>I get plenty of hugs under the present system.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t teach from my desk, so you don&#8217;t have to bother putting anything under it.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter E. Wallis</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13271</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter E. Wallis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2004 04:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13271</guid>
		<description>Even though as an engineer I make much higher fees on a custom built school building than I make on a site adaptation for relocatables, I believe those relocatables are the wave of the future.
Bring in a bunch of working teachers, paying each one royally for their opinion, and nail down the design for 5 years. 
My own choice would be for 20 CFM of outside air per occupant, 68 degrees for the students and a supplementary electric heater under the teacher's desk.
I still like the 100 Footcandles we tried for years ago, with dimming available when needed.
If the class size is reduced to 20, perhaps the module could hold a private office and toilet for the teacher. Plus a gun rack in some districts.
A big screen/monitor and both local and internet connectivity.
The student laptop I discussed previously.
No windows.
A hug for the teacher whenever he/she earns it or just needs it.
Oh, and a private parking spot for all teachers but not administrators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even though as an engineer I make much higher fees on a custom built school building than I make on a site adaptation for relocatables, I believe those relocatables are the wave of the future.<br />
Bring in a bunch of working teachers, paying each one royally for their opinion, and nail down the design for 5 years.<br />
My own choice would be for 20 CFM of outside air per occupant, 68 degrees for the students and a supplementary electric heater under the teacher&#8217;s desk.<br />
I still like the 100 Footcandles we tried for years ago, with dimming available when needed.<br />
If the class size is reduced to 20, perhaps the module could hold a private office and toilet for the teacher. Plus a gun rack in some districts.<br />
A big screen/monitor and both local and internet connectivity.<br />
The student laptop I discussed previously.<br />
No windows.<br />
A hug for the teacher whenever he/she earns it or just needs it.<br />
Oh, and a private parking spot for all teachers but not administrators.</p>
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		<title>By: Rita C.</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13270</link>
		<dc:creator>Rita C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13270</guid>
		<description>My windows do open, but I bought my own fan :).  Let me say that I like the district I work in very much.  Teachers are focused on teaching, the administration backs us up, and we don't have to deal with such nonsense as submitting our lesson plans every week. I'll take being treated as a professional over A/C any day.  

As for the grading, the kids have to write lots of essays in order to learn how to write lots of essays.  I can't stand up there and blah blah about transitions and expect them to master them without attempting them.  I also believe in frequent quizzing to check to see what they're getting and not getting, especially when it comes to grammar.  I don't test that often, but the papers and quizzes add up.  Believe me, I'm trying to cut a lot of it.  It's hard to argue with some of the results I get, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My windows do open, but I bought my own fan :).  Let me say that I like the district I work in very much.  Teachers are focused on teaching, the administration backs us up, and we don&#8217;t have to deal with such nonsense as submitting our lesson plans every week. I&#8217;ll take being treated as a professional over A/C any day.  </p>
<p>As for the grading, the kids have to write lots of essays in order to learn how to write lots of essays.  I can&#8217;t stand up there and blah blah about transitions and expect them to master them without attempting them.  I also believe in frequent quizzing to check to see what they&#8217;re getting and not getting, especially when it comes to grammar.  I don&#8217;t test that often, but the papers and quizzes add up.  Believe me, I&#8217;m trying to cut a lot of it.  It&#8217;s hard to argue with some of the results I get, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim from Texas</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13269</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim from Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2004 01:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13269</guid>
		<description>Rita: That A/C hasn't been provided in the classrooms is absolutely horrid. If I were also teaching in a school that doesn't have windows to open and very quiet fans circulating the air while I wait for the A/C to be installed, or at least the promise of a soon-to-be-installed A/C system, then I'm afraid the last portion of me that anyone in that school district would see  would be the soles of my shoes, my hind end, and my elbows.

Cold water in any situation is not necessary to supply the body's need for water replenishment.
Moreover, it has been argued that drinking cold water or any cold liguid is not good for the stomach. Yes, the first jolt of cold water is nice, but quite unnecessary. In addition, more water can be consumed at room temp.,which results in fewer trips to the fountain.

Before continuing,I want to say I can understand from this post and previous posts that you are a very hard working teacher. Also from this post I can tell your fortitude is greater than mine, which is evident from my first paragraph here.  
I wish you a cool,cool summer holiday.

As to all that grading you do, I say: Wow. However, I must also say this: Whether a teacher has 10, 20,30, or 40 in a class, that is far too much grading and far too many grades. Cut it to at least a third. It is not necessary to have that much grading to assess a student's abilities. As a matter of fact, one can argue that so many graded assignments and tests are a direct detriment to the learning process.  Naturally, such a reduction should be introduced at the proper rate to allow adjustments on the part of the students, and I suppose for the teacher as well. Yes, it does seem, at first thought, ridiculous, but please, give it long consideration, for it is not only very good for the students, but very good for the teacher as well.

It is evident you're in a school where there are students that need alot of attention. I've been there too. Less grading will be better in this respect also. You will have more energy,and more energy means better moods,better body language and so forth. Also, it will afford you some nice evenings and weekends in a row to tend to yourself. You are human and not a machine and don't forget it! And finally on this subject, you don't need to know the students personally to be able to assist them and give them advise when appropriate. Getting to close to any student or students is far too emotionally draining and in the long run you can't really help them enough comensurate to the energy and emotion sucked from you.

Ahhhhhh, now to counselors, I agree there must be somewhere to send students in crisis as the poor girl you mentioned. Yes to a crisis counselor would be fine, some one brought from the outside a true professional in such matters. Maybe a large school with many such students, another such counselor. However, there should not be counselors who students can visit to whine about trvial things , get their schedule changed, for any reasons, including academic reasons. Counselors, because the position attracts those persons, who are dying to leave the classroom, and  who have the propensity to be fooled by students and listen to and give credence to any and every whine a student has,shoud not be allowed to even look at a schedule much less do any scheduling whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rita: That A/C hasn&#8217;t been provided in the classrooms is absolutely horrid. If I were also teaching in a school that doesn&#8217;t have windows to open and very quiet fans circulating the air while I wait for the A/C to be installed, or at least the promise of a soon-to-be-installed A/C system, then I&#8217;m afraid the last portion of me that anyone in that school district would see  would be the soles of my shoes, my hind end, and my elbows.</p>
<p>Cold water in any situation is not necessary to supply the body&#8217;s need for water replenishment.<br />
Moreover, it has been argued that drinking cold water or any cold liguid is not good for the stomach. Yes, the first jolt of cold water is nice, but quite unnecessary. In addition, more water can be consumed at room temp.,which results in fewer trips to the fountain.</p>
<p>Before continuing,I want to say I can understand from this post and previous posts that you are a very hard working teacher. Also from this post I can tell your fortitude is greater than mine, which is evident from my first paragraph here.<br />
I wish you a cool,cool summer holiday.</p>
<p>As to all that grading you do, I say: Wow. However, I must also say this: Whether a teacher has 10, 20,30, or 40 in a class, that is far too much grading and far too many grades. Cut it to at least a third. It is not necessary to have that much grading to assess a student&#8217;s abilities. As a matter of fact, one can argue that so many graded assignments and tests are a direct detriment to the learning process.  Naturally, such a reduction should be introduced at the proper rate to allow adjustments on the part of the students, and I suppose for the teacher as well. Yes, it does seem, at first thought, ridiculous, but please, give it long consideration, for it is not only very good for the students, but very good for the teacher as well.</p>
<p>It is evident you&#8217;re in a school where there are students that need alot of attention. I&#8217;ve been there too. Less grading will be better in this respect also. You will have more energy,and more energy means better moods,better body language and so forth. Also, it will afford you some nice evenings and weekends in a row to tend to yourself. You are human and not a machine and don&#8217;t forget it! And finally on this subject, you don&#8217;t need to know the students personally to be able to assist them and give them advise when appropriate. Getting to close to any student or students is far too emotionally draining and in the long run you can&#8217;t really help them enough comensurate to the energy and emotion sucked from you.</p>
<p>Ahhhhhh, now to counselors, I agree there must be somewhere to send students in crisis as the poor girl you mentioned. Yes to a crisis counselor would be fine, some one brought from the outside a true professional in such matters. Maybe a large school with many such students, another such counselor. However, there should not be counselors who students can visit to whine about trvial things , get their schedule changed, for any reasons, including academic reasons. Counselors, because the position attracts those persons, who are dying to leave the classroom, and  who have the propensity to be fooled by students and listen to and give credence to any and every whine a student has,shoud not be allowed to even look at a schedule much less do any scheduling whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Rita C.</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13268</link>
		<dc:creator>Rita C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13268</guid>
		<description>Tim from Texas:  when you don't have A/C in the classrooms, yeah, you need some cold water readily available.

I have attended schools where the heat was set at the minimum to prevent the pipes from freezing (all those Massachusetts tax revisions in the 80's were interesting times to live through).  Kinda hard to take notes with gloves on, but I guess I managed.

I think with 40 kids/per class, you're treading in teacher burnout waters.  This year, I have about 135 students total.  That's 135 x about 7 essays per semester, a major research paper, tests, quizzes, homeworks, etc.  My kids have 75 grades (x 135) this semester.  An essay takes an average of about 10 - 15 minutes each to grade properly. That's a LOT of grading.  I'm given one official hour per day to plan and do all that grading.  If you bump me up to 200 students, the amount of grading skyrockets.  I work evenings and weekends now.  I'm not sure I'd stick with the profession with that much more work demand.  I couldn't teach properly and have any sort of life outside of school.  Also, I wouldn't get to know so many of my students.  I don't think that shows up on standardized tests, but with today's hands-off parenting, etc. means a lot of these kids are very needy for attention.  Sure, get rid of the counselors, but who takes their place when a kid writes to you about how she was raped last week (true story)?  I know you don't approve of "personal realtionships" with the kids, but I have them whether I want them or not.  I can't turn a kid away with something like that.  Anyway, end of the year rambling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim from Texas:  when you don&#8217;t have A/C in the classrooms, yeah, you need some cold water readily available.</p>
<p>I have attended schools where the heat was set at the minimum to prevent the pipes from freezing (all those Massachusetts tax revisions in the 80&#8217;s were interesting times to live through).  Kinda hard to take notes with gloves on, but I guess I managed.</p>
<p>I think with 40 kids/per class, you&#8217;re treading in teacher burnout waters.  This year, I have about 135 students total.  That&#8217;s 135 x about 7 essays per semester, a major research paper, tests, quizzes, homeworks, etc.  My kids have 75 grades (x 135) this semester.  An essay takes an average of about 10 - 15 minutes each to grade properly. That&#8217;s a LOT of grading.  I&#8217;m given one official hour per day to plan and do all that grading.  If you bump me up to 200 students, the amount of grading skyrockets.  I work evenings and weekends now.  I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d stick with the profession with that much more work demand.  I couldn&#8217;t teach properly and have any sort of life outside of school.  Also, I wouldn&#8217;t get to know so many of my students.  I don&#8217;t think that shows up on standardized tests, but with today&#8217;s hands-off parenting, etc. means a lot of these kids are very needy for attention.  Sure, get rid of the counselors, but who takes their place when a kid writes to you about how she was raped last week (true story)?  I know you don&#8217;t approve of &#8220;personal realtionships&#8221; with the kids, but I have them whether I want them or not.  I can&#8217;t turn a kid away with something like that.  Anyway, end of the year rambling.</p>
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		<title>By: JuliaK</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13267</link>
		<dc:creator>JuliaK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2004 19:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13267</guid>
		<description>I will say, up front, that I am no fan of computers in the classroom.   Here's another aspect of the spending spree, which should be considered:  how do you know that all this money ever purchases equipment, at all?  A school administrator has just been arrested for embezzlement. (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/22138.htm).

One interesting quote, in this context, is: "Nassau prosecutor Peter Mancuso yesterday said Gluckin stole "in excess of $1 million." Gluckin cut checks to her own "fictitious" company, Computer and Technical Services, as well as another company owned by her husband, said Mancuso. The payments were ostensibly for services to the school, but went into her pocket, he said."

Is she the only unethical administrator to have thought of this wrinkle?  I doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will say, up front, that I am no fan of computers in the classroom.   Here&#8217;s another aspect of the spending spree, which should be considered:  how do you know that all this money ever purchases equipment, at all?  A school administrator has just been arrested for embezzlement. (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/22138.htm).</p>
<p>One interesting quote, in this context, is: &#8220;Nassau prosecutor Peter Mancuso yesterday said Gluckin stole &#8220;in excess of $1 million.&#8221; Gluckin cut checks to her own &#8220;fictitious&#8221; company, Computer and Technical Services, as well as another company owned by her husband, said Mancuso. The payments were ostensibly for services to the school, but went into her pocket, he said.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is she the only unethical administrator to have thought of this wrinkle?  I doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim from Texas</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13266</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim from Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2004 18:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13266</guid>
		<description>It seems to me ,we are all interested in educating our children in a system that works efficiently and uses our tax dollars and resources wisely and frugally.

There are so many unnecessary things that can be eliminated at schools and in any district wide system, which would cut costs and free up money,in some cases not immediately, but in the not-so-long run. There are other things that can be cut to a minimum. Moreover, I think it can be argued, that doing so, would not hamper or slow production, nor damage the product-- educated youth.

First, in my opinion, the physical aspects of the system need to be revamped and retooled. So,if you please, and I suppose, since I'm going to do it, if you don't please, I will ask a few questions.

Is it wise to spend $80,000,000,000.00 in a decade for any tool before it's completely proven its value beyond doubt?

Do schools really need so many expensive copy machines?

Do the teachers and students need such expensive texts, in order to teach and learn?

Other than in the PE and sports dressing rooms, do the students need lockers?

Is it necessary to install so many drinking fountains and do they really need to be refridgerated?

Do teachers need so many lounges and/or work rooms?

Do middle schools and high schools need vast expanded spaces between facilities and otherwise?

Are there many features and facilities in our schools that we don't allow students to use or take advantage ,and if they are , isn't it very rare?

Yes,things like refridgerated water fountains might seem nit-picky, but isn't every dollar important?

Of course, there are other questions that need to be asked in respect to the the physical, but now to a much more controversial subject, personnel. 

Does a well working school need so many administrators?

Does a well working school district office need so many administrative positions?

Are there as many school/district administrators in the state of New York as there are in all of Europe?

Do schools need counselors of any sort? A short comment here. I got very tired of stumbling over counselors and cleaning up their messes and I don't think I'm alone in my evaluation of the counseling position.

Do we really need so many teachers? A short comment here. I have never seen any proof nor have I experienced any proof, that smaller classes,say at a number of 20, are better, in any form or fashion, than say, classes of 40.

Would larger classes free up money to possibly seek out the best teachers and/or the best teacher prospects? 

There are , of course, more questions which could be asked in the personnel catagory as well. However, I do remember,I did say "a few".

To close, it seems to me that when it comes to evaluating our schools, and their administrative sytems, we have in the past, and  in most respects now, reacted like "the third monkey", for it is such a sensitive, scary and emotional subject in so many ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me ,we are all interested in educating our children in a system that works efficiently and uses our tax dollars and resources wisely and frugally.</p>
<p>There are so many unnecessary things that can be eliminated at schools and in any district wide system, which would cut costs and free up money,in some cases not immediately, but in the not-so-long run. There are other things that can be cut to a minimum. Moreover, I think it can be argued, that doing so, would not hamper or slow production, nor damage the product&#8211; educated youth.</p>
<p>First, in my opinion, the physical aspects of the system need to be revamped and retooled. So,if you please, and I suppose, since I&#8217;m going to do it, if you don&#8217;t please, I will ask a few questions.</p>
<p>Is it wise to spend $80,000,000,000.00 in a decade for any tool before it&#8217;s completely proven its value beyond doubt?</p>
<p>Do schools really need so many expensive copy machines?</p>
<p>Do the teachers and students need such expensive texts, in order to teach and learn?</p>
<p>Other than in the PE and sports dressing rooms, do the students need lockers?</p>
<p>Is it necessary to install so many drinking fountains and do they really need to be refridgerated?</p>
<p>Do teachers need so many lounges and/or work rooms?</p>
<p>Do middle schools and high schools need vast expanded spaces between facilities and otherwise?</p>
<p>Are there many features and facilities in our schools that we don&#8217;t allow students to use or take advantage ,and if they are , isn&#8217;t it very rare?</p>
<p>Yes,things like refridgerated water fountains might seem nit-picky, but isn&#8217;t every dollar important?</p>
<p>Of course, there are other questions that need to be asked in respect to the the physical, but now to a much more controversial subject, personnel. </p>
<p>Does a well working school need so many administrators?</p>
<p>Does a well working school district office need so many administrative positions?</p>
<p>Are there as many school/district administrators in the state of New York as there are in all of Europe?</p>
<p>Do schools need counselors of any sort? A short comment here. I got very tired of stumbling over counselors and cleaning up their messes and I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m alone in my evaluation of the counseling position.</p>
<p>Do we really need so many teachers? A short comment here. I have never seen any proof nor have I experienced any proof, that smaller classes,say at a number of 20, are better, in any form or fashion, than say, classes of 40.</p>
<p>Would larger classes free up money to possibly seek out the best teachers and/or the best teacher prospects? </p>
<p>There are , of course, more questions which could be asked in the personnel catagory as well. However, I do remember,I did say &#8220;a few&#8221;.</p>
<p>To close, it seems to me that when it comes to evaluating our schools, and their administrative sytems, we have in the past, and  in most respects now, reacted like &#8220;the third monkey&#8221;, for it is such a sensitive, scary and emotional subject in so many ways.</p>
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		<title>By: SuzieQ</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13265</link>
		<dc:creator>SuzieQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13265</guid>
		<description>Steve, I am also a parent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, I am also a parent.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter Wallis</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13264</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Wallis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13264</guid>
		<description>Why not eliminate heat in the classrooms, too? All you have to do is bundle up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not eliminate heat in the classrooms, too? All you have to do is bundle up.</p>
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		<title>By: Rita C.</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13263</link>
		<dc:creator>Rita C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobsblog.com/2004/06/01/the-e-rate-boondoggle/#comment-13263</guid>
		<description>Somehow I manage to teach and the kids manage to learn without A/C.  Some parts of the building do have A/C, but my wing is very old and the electrical wiring won't support a coffee pot, nevermind an air conditioner (true -- tried it once).  I have a computer on my desk for my use.  If I'm doing computer stuff with the kids, we go to a lab.  I think we have 3 to serve 1200 kids.  That can be a little tight if several of us are doing big research papers, but mostly it seems sufficient.  Every classroom doesn't have to be full of PC's.  They're more of a distraction than anything else.  In addition to behavior, dress code, talking, and all the other little crap I have to police, I'd have to monitor games and email.  At least I can take away their calculators and cell phones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow I manage to teach and the kids manage to learn without A/C.  Some parts of the building do have A/C, but my wing is very old and the electrical wiring won&#8217;t support a coffee pot, nevermind an air conditioner (true &#8212; tried it once).  I have a computer on my desk for my use.  If I&#8217;m doing computer stuff with the kids, we go to a lab.  I think we have 3 to serve 1200 kids.  That can be a little tight if several of us are doing big research papers, but mostly it seems sufficient.  Every classroom doesn&#8217;t have to be full of PC&#8217;s.  They&#8217;re more of a distraction than anything else.  In addition to behavior, dress code, talking, and all the other little crap I have to police, I&#8217;d have to monitor games and email.  At least I can take away their calculators and cell phones.</p>
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