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	<title>Comments on: Handwriting matters</title>
	<atom:link href="http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-63542</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-63542</guid>
		<description>Jade - Handwriting Without Tears is the program that our occupational therapists prefer. There is a print and a cursive version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jade - Handwriting Without Tears is the program that our occupational therapists prefer. There is a print and a cursive version.</p>
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		<title>By: Jade</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-63505</link>
		<dc:creator>Jade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-63505</guid>
		<description>I'm pretty convinced that handwriting is important.  But I am having trouble figuring out what are good materials for helping support what my son is doing in school.  Unfortunately, he didn't really learn to write in cursive in second grade.  I think it was because he was in a small, alternative school and the rest of the small class was girls who all seemed to already know how to write cursive. The teacher never really took the time to teach him.  So now we're in third grade in a public school and it seems that all the kids were supposed to learn how to write cursive in second grade and now I am supposed to teach my son.  His teacher is fantastic.  But I am struggling to figure out how to help him.  Of course we are copying and practicing, but the materials I've found aren't so great.  Anyone have suggestions?  P.S.  I don't think I can teach him the 'italic' style because part of learning cursive is learning how to *read* cursive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty convinced that handwriting is important.  But I am having trouble figuring out what are good materials for helping support what my son is doing in school.  Unfortunately, he didn&#8217;t really learn to write in cursive in second grade.  I think it was because he was in a small, alternative school and the rest of the small class was girls who all seemed to already know how to write cursive. The teacher never really took the time to teach him.  So now we&#8217;re in third grade in a public school and it seems that all the kids were supposed to learn how to write cursive in second grade and now I am supposed to teach my son.  His teacher is fantastic.  But I am struggling to figure out how to help him.  Of course we are copying and practicing, but the materials I&#8217;ve found aren&#8217;t so great.  Anyone have suggestions?  P.S.  I don&#8217;t think I can teach him the &#8216;italic&#8217; style because part of learning cursive is learning how to *read* cursive.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62983</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62983</guid>
		<description>I think that handwriting is important as long as they can read their own.  Since we are moving into a technology based world we will be using computers here soon for most things.  I know now that in all my college classes I use the computer to type notes.  I am hardly ever writing, except for on tests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that handwriting is important as long as they can read their own.  Since we are moving into a technology based world we will be using computers here soon for most things.  I know now that in all my college classes I use the computer to type notes.  I am hardly ever writing, except for on tests.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62977</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62977</guid>
		<description>Kids need to be fluent in a form of written communication in order to take notes, organize thoughts, and communicate ideas. Whicever form is most optimally functional for the child is the one that should be used. If a child shows motor dysfunction or has dysfluent handwriting, decisions must be made on an individual basis - the question is what the general school policy should be.

I teach in an elementary school and I see no signs that paper is becoming obsolete - even though there is extensive typing instruction. Also, multisensory teaching methods, used for reading instruction, often involve the physical act of writing, whether it be skywriting, tracing on a dry erase board, or doing "dictation" with pencil and paper. Striking a single key on a keyboard does not help to cement the form of a letter or its sound in memory. All keys on most keyboards feel interchangeable. Therefore, for the beginning reader, physically writing out the letters does have a measureable benefit (assuming letters are practiced correctly - writing a "d" backwards while saying the "b" sound only cements confusion).

On the other hand, when attempting to spell accurately, fluent typing is highly advantageous. Children who struggle with motor memory do not produce handwritten letters automatically. This causes them to have to focus attention and working memory space to letter formation, decreasing the amount of attention, working memory, and energy available for word retrieval, syntax, idea formation, and organization. Often legibility suffers too, unless the child is solely copying and not producing the language simultaneously. At that point, fluent typing is a huge time saver, since it takes one precise keystroke to produce a letter. Some typists can do that with two or three fingers (I know kids who can hunt and peck better than many adult folks can type). The key word is, again, fluent. Dysfluent typing takes away attention and working memory from language production - though often takes away less than dysfluent handwriting does.

So based on all of this, I would suggest that students practice handwriting during reading class as they are learning sounds, syllables, spelling rules and so on. They should also be playing with learn-to-type programs on the computer - there are many designed for children, some of which even review beginning reading skills. When they have to write, they should use whatever method facilitates better production. And they should only be graded on the neatness of polished, finished products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kids need to be fluent in a form of written communication in order to take notes, organize thoughts, and communicate ideas. Whicever form is most optimally functional for the child is the one that should be used. If a child shows motor dysfunction or has dysfluent handwriting, decisions must be made on an individual basis - the question is what the general school policy should be.</p>
<p>I teach in an elementary school and I see no signs that paper is becoming obsolete - even though there is extensive typing instruction. Also, multisensory teaching methods, used for reading instruction, often involve the physical act of writing, whether it be skywriting, tracing on a dry erase board, or doing &#8220;dictation&#8221; with pencil and paper. Striking a single key on a keyboard does not help to cement the form of a letter or its sound in memory. All keys on most keyboards feel interchangeable. Therefore, for the beginning reader, physically writing out the letters does have a measureable benefit (assuming letters are practiced correctly - writing a &#8220;d&#8221; backwards while saying the &#8220;b&#8221; sound only cements confusion).</p>
<p>On the other hand, when attempting to spell accurately, fluent typing is highly advantageous. Children who struggle with motor memory do not produce handwritten letters automatically. This causes them to have to focus attention and working memory space to letter formation, decreasing the amount of attention, working memory, and energy available for word retrieval, syntax, idea formation, and organization. Often legibility suffers too, unless the child is solely copying and not producing the language simultaneously. At that point, fluent typing is a huge time saver, since it takes one precise keystroke to produce a letter. Some typists can do that with two or three fingers (I know kids who can hunt and peck better than many adult folks can type). The key word is, again, fluent. Dysfluent typing takes away attention and working memory from language production - though often takes away less than dysfluent handwriting does.</p>
<p>So based on all of this, I would suggest that students practice handwriting during reading class as they are learning sounds, syllables, spelling rules and so on. They should also be playing with learn-to-type programs on the computer - there are many designed for children, some of which even review beginning reading skills. When they have to write, they should use whatever method facilitates better production. And they should only be graded on the neatness of polished, finished products.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Sundseth</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62952</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Sundseth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62952</guid>
		<description>Bell Work Online Staff: "I wonder why we’re teaching any kind of handwriting at all."

Try setting up and solving an interesting integral in a limited space on a test or on the tools available on the vast majority of computers, then get back to me about how useless legible handwriting is.

FWIW, I use computers almost exclusively for extended writing.  For note-taking, outlining, math, brainstorming -- anything other than formal prose, really -- I find writing by hand to be indispensable.

Cal: "Yes, handwriting is important, but schools are covering it adequately. The only real problem are kids with dysgraphia, an often undiagnosed learning disability that produces precisely the problems mentioned."

While I can't speak to "schools", I &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; say that the schools I've seen locally do a terrible job of teaching writing.  And it is, I think, precisely the attitude reflected in "Bell Work Online Staff"'s comment that leads teachers to be unwilling to spend the necessary time on the subject.

In particular, my experience is that boys have a much bigger problem with legibility and speed than do girls.  (I think my experience is also the conventional wisdom, though I'd be happy to see any evidence either way.)  When added to an increasing emphasis on writing over math, this can result in severely disparate impact on the education of young boys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bell Work Online Staff: &#8220;I wonder why we’re teaching any kind of handwriting at all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Try setting up and solving an interesting integral in a limited space on a test or on the tools available on the vast majority of computers, then get back to me about how useless legible handwriting is.</p>
<p>FWIW, I use computers almost exclusively for extended writing.  For note-taking, outlining, math, brainstorming &#8212; anything other than formal prose, really &#8212; I find writing by hand to be indispensable.</p>
<p>Cal: &#8220;Yes, handwriting is important, but schools are covering it adequately. The only real problem are kids with dysgraphia, an often undiagnosed learning disability that produces precisely the problems mentioned.&#8221;</p>
<p>While I can&#8217;t speak to &#8220;schools&#8221;, I <i>can</i> say that the schools I&#8217;ve seen locally do a terrible job of teaching writing.  And it is, I think, precisely the attitude reflected in &#8220;Bell Work Online Staff&#8221;&#8217;s comment that leads teachers to be unwilling to spend the necessary time on the subject.</p>
<p>In particular, my experience is that boys have a much bigger problem with legibility and speed than do girls.  (I think my experience is also the conventional wisdom, though I&#8217;d be happy to see any evidence either way.)  When added to an increasing emphasis on writing over math, this can result in severely disparate impact on the education of young boys.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62940</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62940</guid>
		<description>I was watching a movie from the 1990s this weekend with my wife.  The 1990s are so close and yet so far.

When parents in the movie got a letter (via the US Mail) from their college student son, we both remarked how odd that seems today.  I'll bet 99% of college student - parent exchanges were emails or text messages this year.  Who would want to wait three days for their message to get through?  And PAY for postage?

We laughed again when someone pulled out a clunky old SLR film camera to take a snapshot.  Then a character pulled out a big, bulky cell phone and we REALLY cracked up.

I know you're proud of your penmanship, but it's a lost cause.  Printing is fine for all daily use and I don't think it will be long before longhand will be illegible to the younger generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was watching a movie from the 1990s this weekend with my wife.  The 1990s are so close and yet so far.</p>
<p>When parents in the movie got a letter (via the US Mail) from their college student son, we both remarked how odd that seems today.  I&#8217;ll bet 99% of college student - parent exchanges were emails or text messages this year.  Who would want to wait three days for their message to get through?  And PAY for postage?</p>
<p>We laughed again when someone pulled out a clunky old SLR film camera to take a snapshot.  Then a character pulled out a big, bulky cell phone and we REALLY cracked up.</p>
<p>I know you&#8217;re proud of your penmanship, but it&#8217;s a lost cause.  Printing is fine for all daily use and I don&#8217;t think it will be long before longhand will be illegible to the younger generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Lacie S</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62921</link>
		<dc:creator>Lacie S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62921</guid>
		<description>I think that in this day and age, handwriting is a lost cause!  Any more people use the computers for everything.  Need to write a note to the neighbor; just drop an email or type a note to put in their box. I think that handwriting is very important, especially in the developmental stages of learning phonemes and such; however, any more computers are taking the place of the need for pen and paper.  I think that teacher’s do an adequate job of teaching students something that’s being lost in our culture today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that in this day and age, handwriting is a lost cause!  Any more people use the computers for everything.  Need to write a note to the neighbor; just drop an email or type a note to put in their box. I think that handwriting is very important, especially in the developmental stages of learning phonemes and such; however, any more computers are taking the place of the need for pen and paper.  I think that teacher’s do an adequate job of teaching students something that’s being lost in our culture today.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62917</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62917</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Learning x does not help you learn y. Neither long division nor careful handwriting will transfer to learning history or doing a good job in mopping a floor. &lt;/i&gt;

Umm, quite often, in learning history, you need to take notes. Fast but readable handwriting is useful for that. In my history classes I would write all the time.

Handwriting may not be a help in mopping a floor. But in a job that involves any writing, it's a useful skill to have. I've used handwriting when working as a checkout operator and as a nurse's aide

There are core skills such as maths and reading and writing that are used in a wide variety of different areas of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Learning x does not help you learn y. Neither long division nor careful handwriting will transfer to learning history or doing a good job in mopping a floor. </i></p>
<p>Umm, quite often, in learning history, you need to take notes. Fast but readable handwriting is useful for that. In my history classes I would write all the time.</p>
<p>Handwriting may not be a help in mopping a floor. But in a job that involves any writing, it&#8217;s a useful skill to have. I&#8217;ve used handwriting when working as a checkout operator and as a nurse&#8217;s aide</p>
<p>There are core skills such as maths and reading and writing that are used in a wide variety of different areas of life.</p>
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		<title>By: ms_teacher</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62879</link>
		<dc:creator>ms_teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62879</guid>
		<description>I just love when people like Cal make such wide-sweeping generalizations about a group of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just love when people like Cal make such wide-sweeping generalizations about a group of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Replicant</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62838</link>
		<dc:creator>Replicant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2007/11/09/handwriting-matters/#comment-62838</guid>
		<description>I work at Microsoft.  The floor I work on is split between the people who make Microsoft Word and the people who make OneNote, a software program for taking notes.  Every person on the floor is a computer programmer of some kind.  The average office contains 3 different computers.  The entire purpose of that floor of the building is to find increasingly sophisticated ways to write everything - from memos to letters to 1,000-page technical manuals - on a computer.

The supply room for the floor contains stacks of sticky notes, notebooks, and ink pens, all of which have to be replaced regularly.

There is no substitute for paper, and as such, no substitute for knowing how to write on paper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work at Microsoft.  The floor I work on is split between the people who make Microsoft Word and the people who make OneNote, a software program for taking notes.  Every person on the floor is a computer programmer of some kind.  The average office contains 3 different computers.  The entire purpose of that floor of the building is to find increasingly sophisticated ways to write everything - from memos to letters to 1,000-page technical manuals - on a computer.</p>
<p>The supply room for the floor contains stacks of sticky notes, notebooks, and ink pens, all of which have to be replaced regularly.</p>
<p>There is no substitute for paper, and as such, no substitute for knowing how to write on paper.</p>
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