Cal Poly wants to open a male-only engineering program at a university in Saudi Arabia. From the LA Times:
Some staffers and students contend that the university — which prides itself on the number of female engineers it graduates — should steer clear of a kingdom where women’s rights are restricted and a fledgling engineering program would be open only to men.
. . . Over five years, Cal Poly would receive $5.9 million from the Saudi government to create an engineering curriculum, build labs and train teachers in Jubail, a sprawling oil center on the Persian Gulf. Only men would qualify to take or teach engineering classes, although the campus has separate classes in other disciplines for women.
The story quotes a Saudi-based blogger who says other universities have had trouble with Saudi insistence on an Islamic curriculum, even in technology classes.
Hmmm…is this the “Leave No Terrorist Behind” program?
Of course, this is a California school, so the Saudi Arabian students will probably be less anti-US.
They need the institutions in place to accomodate women for when the law changes.
Denying men the opportunity for good jobs doesn’t just hurt the men but it also hurts the women and children they support. \
I am curious what an Islamic curriculum in a techology class would consist of.
I work at Cal Poly. I am also a card-carrying member of the SWE and IEEE. The majority of engineering faculty are vehemently opposed to this program, but Dean Mohammad Noori is pushing it anyway. “Women, Gays, and Jews need not apply” so the motto goes.
It’s all about money. Forget ethics, morals, or even California’s equal opportunity employment law – it’s all about money. And it seems our administration would sell all of our souls to the devil if the College could get enough in payment. This whole thing is disgusting and the public knows little about it. This story is being buried under the PC umbrella entitled “cultural exchange.”
One would hope that the administration would have the foresite and courage to stand up for equal rights but one would be wrong. But I’m sure it won’t be a big deal to the protest types because it’s not like it’s ROTC or something.
Some staffers and students contend that the university — which prides itself on the number of female engineers it graduates — should steer clear of a kingdom where women’s rights are restricted and a fledgling engineering program would be open only to men.
A true multiculturalist would never think such a thing. No culture is better than any other culture. No set of mores are better than any other set of mores. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. Judge not, O ye of Western Civ, for your cultural imperialism doth offend.
BadaBing – did you have your sarcasm tags on??
Gee, where are all of the California women’s rights groups on this? The silence is deafening (or maybe I’m not listening on the right frequency).
How many more generations of Islamic women do we throw under the bus before we start holding these misanthropes’ feet to the fire?
BadaBing-
I’m hoping that was sarcasm…
Myrtle-
“I am curious what an Islamic curriculum in a techology class would consist of.”
Demolition? Nuclear physics?
Next time some righteous Californian tries to act holier-than-thou I’m gonna stick this story down his or her throat.
So you are unaware of sex segregated colleges in the United States (e.g. Bryn Mawr)? Should they be eliminated for consistencies sake or not? And of those historically single gender colleges which have integrated, how long have they been gender integrated? In the case of the historically male only Rutgers University women were not admitted until 1970.
Personally, I’d nix the deal just because I think the Cal Poly is out it’s league doing this, but don’t use gender exclusivity as a rationale, because you are a hypocrite if you do. I am a Cal Poly alumnus who lives nearby and have both private sector (20 years) and higher education (last 5 years) experience. While Cal Poly is more than a “cow school,” it’s not a level 1 research university. I also graduated from one of those, so I know the difference. President Baker and Dean Noori have better things to do with their time as far as I am concerned, and should stay much closer to home.
Perhaps Warren should take a class in US constitutional law with his freed up time, since he has proven that he thinks that the First Amendment doesn’t apply to Cal Poly. Google up Steve Hinkle to find out how the people of the State of California had to cough up $40,000 because of Baker’s ignorance of our fundamental laws.
RKV
Cal Poly ‘80
An Islamic curriculum would certainly involve basic metaphysics — that is “volunteerism,” which states that everything that exists or happens exists or happens because of the will of god, and that got is constrained by nothing. Tha is, there is no such thing as ‘reality,’ which is a Western error. Inshallah. For background check out the Wikipedia articles on alGhazali and Averoes (Ibn Rushd).
Myrtle hints at the challenge of influencing change in places like gender-apartheid Saudi Arabia — assuming, of course, we feel entitled to help bring about such change. Is it best accomplished through engagement and contact, or through sanction, isolation and dis-investment (a la apartheid-era South Africa)?
A bit of a Goldilocks’ dilema. Depending upon one’s politics, we are either ‘propping up’ or ‘failing to engage’ one distasteful regime or another; ‘ignoring’ problems in one country, while ‘interfering’ in the affairs of another.
Why economic sanctions are applauded in some cases but decried in others often says more about those doing the applauding or decrying than it says about the regimes in question.
I am a Cal Poly Alumna as is my wife, both being grads from the School of Engineering.
Following on the heels of the “Cultural Center” fiasco, we are both left wondering what has happened to our school. We were there in the 80s, and most students could not have given a crap about racial identity, politics and religion. If you were at Cal Poly and in the Engineering School, you were interested in a career in the field.
Most grads we know have gone on to successful careers in California, generating tax revenue for the state and making the Cal Poly (a state funded school) a wise investment for California taxpayers.
How does having a program in Saudi Arabia for males only further any of the interests of the University, its students, or the California taxpayers who foot the bill? Sure – the school in SA won’t be paid for by the state per se, but there is value to the Cal Poly name, and to the advice, consent and participation of the Cal Poly faculty. All of those intangibles belong to the people of California.
How is this not state subsidization of a discriminatory program? States that have tried to offer school bus rides to parochial school children have had the practice struck down by the Supreme court as an indirect state subsidy of religion.
Is this not the same?
Thankfully I’m an alumnus of the Cal Poly Pomona, not at SLO.
Time to:
* Tell the Dean and President at Pomona that this idea should be DOA there.
* Ask the President at SLO and the Trustees for the Cal State University System just what the Sam Hell is going on?
Most engineering schools here in the states are already almost male-only by virtue of the male:female ratio in the applicant pool, much to the chagrin of the admitted males. In Saudi Arabia, I doubt that it would make any difference whether the school is officially male-only or not – you’d still have 0 women.
Myrtle asks:
What an Islamic curriculum in a techology class would consist of.
….Rubbing the Bottle the Genie comes in.
Silly question. But on a more realistic note, The root of Genie is also the root of Genesis, Generate, and Engineer. So, perhaps there is something to it.
RKV- The problem isn’t necessarily that the school will be sex-segregated, but that by establishing the school there under Saudi Arabian law Cal Poly is endorsing the government-mandated segregation.
From Cal Poly’s Mission Statement
“Cal Poly is dedicated to complete respect for human rights and the development of the full potential of each of its individual members. Cal Poly is committed to providing an environment where all share in the common responsibility to safeguard each other’s rights, encourage a mutual concern for individual growth and appreciate the benefits of a diverse campus community. ”
It seems that establishing a school in a nation that frequently violates basic human rights is hypocritical given the above statement.
Well Sub, there have been sex segregated public schools in the US before as I noted. That said, I really wish Warren would go work on his golf game or whatever else he does with his spare time. It is way past time for a change in leadership. I am sick with the political correctness which has taken over an institution which I have known and loved since the late 1960s (my mom’s an alum, too, so I lived in SLO when she was getting her masters). I am not at all clear that the mission statement has been violated by this proposal – it is “diverse.” That said, and being a mathematical type, when you get a diverse set of answers, one of them is right and the others are wrong. President Kennedy (who I met as a lad) must rolling over in his grave. I mean I can remember when the aggies used to play cowboys vs. hippies on campus. IMO, Cal Poly is a good state school, and shouldn’t be getting too involved in foreign affairs. That’s justification enough in my book for calling this nonsense off.
RKV,
Is Bryn Mawr a state school like Cal Poly or a private university?
So, if Rutgers was all male up to 1970, then we can never criticize any other institutions that are all male?
A bit of mis-information is floating about here.
According to my understanding, Cal Poly is doing nothing more than developing an educational program for a university in KSA. Cal Poly professors will not be teaching in the KSA university nor will KSA students be awarded Cal Poly degrees. It is also my understanding that the program is open to all Cal Poly professors/staff irrespective of race, gender or religion and all costs will be reimbursed by KSA and thus no taxpayer money will be spent on the project.
I have a long-standing interest in women’s educational issues, particularly in the Middle East because of my area of study. In my view, it is warranted for people to be concerned about women’s rights in the Middle East generally, and, in particular, in KSA. It is also true that post-911, things changed markedly in the Kingdom educationally as they are changing throughout the Middle East, notably in Jordan. True, most classes in KSA are still delivered in a gender segregated environment according to custom. However all the five major KSA universities educate both men and women and, in fact, over half the enrollment in those universities is female. The stated goal of King Abdullah is for KSA to become an industrialized nation within the next two decades and to do this he has recognized the necessity of an educated workforce. Implicit in that goal is the ulitilization of the talents of women.
The King has invested, out of his personal fortune, $10 bil US, in the creation of KAUST – the first world-class technological university in KSA. Many notable Western universities are involved with the creation of KAUST and other Saudi universities, among them Cornell University, Harvard Medical, Carnegie Mellon, and others. Duke University in 2005 set up an elelctrical engineering program, similar to the one proposed at Cal Poly, at the all women’s college, Effat, which was enormously successful and has led to the first true student exchange program that took place this past month. Also that year KSA established a signifcant scholarship program to send students to the US and around the world. This year over 15,000 students will be funded up to $31,000 each to attend college in the US at many public and private universities, including the Universities of Kansas, Missouri, Oregon and others. These schools are competively seeking Saudi students and Saudi students, particularly women, are eager to come. Clearly, KSA is making significant progress in growing their educated population – of both genders.
In my view, the issue is whether or not we in the US should make efforts to encourage this trend in the expectation that education and eventual cultural exchange will be the key to more equitable human rights in the KSA, the Middle East and the world at large.
Patience is helpful in this regard. We in America have struggled with achieving equality in our society. The US Women’s Movement began in 1848 and it was not until the passage of the 19th Amendment in 1920 that women could vote. Similarly, our educational system was segregated racially until well after the Brown decision in 1954. Many USD citizens argue that they still have not achieved full civil rights in America.
Cal Poly SLO has been a source of pride for all California citizens and particularly for those on the central coast. As a CA taxpayer I am enormously proud to have my university counted in the ranks of Ivy League and other world-class American universities. The Kingdom is far from perfect, but perhaps – just maybe – Cal Poly will have a small part in improving the human rights of women and others in KSA and thereby change the course of history in the Middle East.
Is it not better to let the light shine in than to close the shutters and remain in darkness?
Kiki, you make a good case. I had read the blog, decided Cal Poly ought to not get involved, and forgot about it. But maybe it’s not so simple.
I’m no good at remembering details, but all this is very reminiscent of the idea a few decades ago that we should shun South Africa as punishment for their system of apartheid. US companies, according to those who considered themselves enlightened, ought to get out and stay out. But I was also aware that when US companies were in South Africa they did their best to do the right thing, subject to the constraints they had to operate under. (Something about a “Sullivan rule” I believe.) I felt at the time that on balance it was better for the black people of South Africa for us to stay engaged. However, as I understood it, there was good reason to think that those black people did indeed want us to get out. (Bishop Tutu’s position?) How that all looks now in hindsight I do not know.
I am a current Cal Poly Student, and am appauled at this entire situation. The administration ignores all concerns from the students and faculty, and refuses to discuss it. They are describing this as such a great accommplishment, and how great it is to be involved in a global education but they are very secretive about this whole thing. If there is so much good, let the campus see the proposal, stop making us dig around for information. From what I have learned this is scary stuff, and I would hate to see my school affiliated with this in any way. Now that the public in being made aware and is responding pretty negatively I hope the administration will reconsider this deal and start making an effort to listen to peoples concerns instead of acting in their own interest.
Yes and ? I do not see any problem with that
Cal Poly is in SA for the Money and this is BUSINESS
Saudis they decide on how to do things with their people
You cant change people from the Holly country like this
It is conservative and it will always be that way.
It will be modernized but at their own rythm and without external push
and Saudis are powerfull today: 45% of the World Oil
So everybody shut up cause money talks
Caly Poly does a good Job and the people allowed to study in KSA will learn a lot a contribute to their country
William Durgan, the man negotiating the contract with the Saudi Arabian College argues that the way to help change a countries discriminatory stance is to start in the academics and their education. “I am hoping to influence Saudi Arabia. One has to start somewhere to build the bridge and tear down the barriers.” quote from NPR radio. The mans ignorance towards culture differences and the task at hand in trying to extinguish the repressive outlook Saudi’s have is appalling. Charles Hill, an international studies professor at Yale makes the point that when Cal Poly is paid 5.9 million dollars to create programs in Saudi Arabia with Saudi rules, it’s the Saudi’s that will be doing the influencing. As a Cal Poly Social Science major, I am appalled at the department of my school creating this program, and their lack of insight before going forth with this dubious task to create social change in Saudi Arabia. A school that has a architectural and engineering department that has gone through great strides to create a program with as many women graduates and students as it has had and has, and takes great pride in doing so, it seems quite contradicting to me building a engineering program in Jubail, which does not allow women to be a part of.