So a bunch of third graders plotted to murder their teacher at a Waycross, Georgia school. Sign of the apocalypse? Sign that little kids don’t know what murder means?
According to AP, the children, 8 to 10 years old, “were mad at their teacher because she had scolded one of them for standing on a chair, authorities say.”
As many as nine boys and girls at Center Elementary School were in on the plan, though some say they thought it was all talk.
Police Chief Tony Tanner said the students apparently planned to knock the teacher unconscious with a glass paperweight, bind her with handcuffs and duct tape and then stab her with a broken steak knife.
The scheme involved a division of roles, Tanner said. One child’s job was to cover windows so no one could see outside, and another was supposed to clean up after the attack.
The boy told to bring a toy gun backed out for fear of getting in trouble.
The teacher who was targeted “teaches third-grade students with learning disabilities, including attention deficit disorder, delayed development and hyperactivity.” However the plotters weren’t troublemakers, the teacher said. Two have been arrested — including a nine-year-old girl also charged with threatening a classmate with the steak knife — and a third arrest is probable.
I’m guessing one child has real emotional problems, two are followers and the rest thought it was a silly joke.
Joanne said: “I’m guessing one child has real emotional problems, two are followers and the rest thought it was a silly joke.”
And I’m guessing you’re right.
I’m waiting for the press conference where they state that video games made them do it.
I’ve been monitoring some message boards regarding this. I’m not sure what make me more sad…..the fact that third graders did this or the reactions of those who have commented on the boards from across the nation. I gone through hundreds of comments and they all give a litany of excuses as to why this happened including it must be the teacher’s fault.
I’m just sad….and concerned.
The concession here to their age is that they were charged with conspiracy to commit aggravated battery, not murder. Proving specific intent to kill beyond a reasonable doubt with kids that young would be more or less impossible without them actually saying “we planned to kill her.”
I don’t know EHT–I have been surprised at how little response I had seen (this one sat empty most of the day today). But after I read your post I googled the topic. I still didn’t see a lot of apologizers. Mostly it was the usual crazies with an agenda–beat the daylights out of them, this is what comes of not beating kids, they must come from single parent families, this is what you get for sending your kids to public school, this is what comes from stupid parents who let their kids play video games and the sad sad comments that I read alluding to the fact that 85% of the school’s population is black and one overt assertion that one of the kids must be bipolar.
I am sure everyone is glad that someone intervened before any action was taken–including the kids. This sounds like a bizarre fantasy gone out of bounds set against a backdrop of adult over-reaction. What I find sad is that we–as adults–seem to be so unequal to the task of sorting out and responding to this behavior. The school passed it off to the police and the courts–and there will be a reliance on some “policy” that says that the school can get rid of the kids for the rest of the school year for having a “weapon”–even if the weapon is duct tape, a paper weight and a broken steak knife.
Even juvenile courts are not well equipped to handle this–they move too slowly and don’t have better access to resources than schools do (frequently worse). It is hard to imagine that an appropriate “consequence” couldn’t be arrived at by the adults more closely involved–that would be the principal, teachers, parents along with some other professionals (school or mental health social worker, etc). We seem to have lost all perspective regarding children and want to treat them like they are adults. They are not (BTW Dave–the issue of intent with children this age would be roughly the same whether they are being accused of intent to kill or intent to commit battery. Their ability to formulate intent is considered to be pretty limited). Judging by the “weapons” at hand, it would seem that their homes are likely pretty child safe when it comes to exposure to tools of destruction. It certainly should be within the realm of possibility for the adults to come up with a non-violent response that acknowledges the age of the transgressors and still drives home the point that this is totally unacceptable behavior in a civilized society.
Sigh
Margo, I’m a prosecutor. The exact wording of individual state’s statutes vary, but attempted murder is a specific intent crime: specific intent to kill. Battery (simple or aggravated) is a general intent crime: intent to touch or strike someone against their will, regardless of result (the aggravating factor is either the weapon or the severity of any resulting injury, but intent isn’t an element there). While I’ve never been in juvy court, thank God, it’s clear the DA here is relying on the difference.
The school is 54 percent black, the rest mostly white, according to greatschools.net.
Joanne–I stand corrected, the post I read got it wrong. Dave–I do believe that juvenile court takes a somewhat different stand when it comes to children this young.
The fact the Joanne’s readers didn’t turn this into an intense debate with a slurry of unprovable theories is a good sign that we are not part of the “adult over-reaction” crowd.
My understanding is the juvenile court as a whole takes on the role of a parent, not a judge, when dealing with any kid in their court. I forget the legal term for this position. Since eight and ten yr olds in the court system have become much more common, I’m sure they know exactly what is needed now.
“In loco parentis”
Let’s see: not your average, run-of-the-mill class, but kids with ADD, delayed development, hyperactivity, other learning disabilities — and yet they managed to come up with a complex plot that included roles for someone to cover the windows, for cleanup after the fact, and all the rest?
Or perhaps we have kids giving what they think may be the expected answers to a series of very leading questions? The McMartin Preschool case comes to mind.
I’ve always said kids can do a lot more than we expect of them.
There have been screwier adult plots, far less well thought out.
IMO. Slap on the wrist and re-evaluation. They aren’t stupid.
The stories I read did not make clear that these were the students in her class. I wondered about it, though. But disability does not equal stupid.
Margo,
I’m certainly not suggesting, nor did I mean to imply, that disability equals stupid.
But it did strike me as improbable that 8-year-olds with these sorts of issues would come up with what seems a rather complex plot.
As a parent, I would not want these kids back in the same school as my child. If they were willing to knock out, bind, and stab an adult, what would they do to another student that made them mad?
Concerned.
Well, there is the case of a jr. hi girl who was forced to strip while the admin looked for Ibuprofen. Thing is, Ibuprofen is so small. You can hide those suckers anywhere. So the search had to be thorough.
I don’t see why more educators aren’t the subject of plots of various kinds. Possibly at the hands of parents.
Point is, kids just like this, albeit with somewhat shorter attention spans, and far less proactive, are in normal classrooms.
These kids took a violent fantasy and got something started.
It isn’t the fantasy which interests me. It’s the followup.
As for the window covering/clean up duty elements– this sounds like pretty run-of-the-mill crime show stuff. Maybe the kids have been watching NCIS with their folks? I’m pretty sure an 8 year old could figure out how to conceal a murder from one of those shows… after all, I had to give up CSI when my EIGHTEEN-MONTH-OLD started doing cheek-swabs on people…….
Deirdre, CSI makes prosecution a lot harder: your typical juror expects bells, whistles and techno-wizardry on even the simplest cases.
I don’t think you have to look at CSI for examples. Have you watched any of the Home Alone movies? As I recall, the elves in The Santa Claus captured a cop and bound him up with tinsel (but he was a BAD cop, right?) Annie? How did the orphans outdo Miss Hannigan? Before there were movies there were books–and evil teachers have been a popular character–David Copperfield, Jane Eyre, The Little Princess.
When children go off the deep end mixing their fantasy with reality, it is up to the adults to give guidance and help to understand the separation. They count on us to do that you know.
My mother, in grade 2, 50 years ago plotted to and carried out a plan to shove her very cruel teacher in the toilet head first. It is a very funny story to hear but the fact is my mom followed through and succeeded. My mom was never caught and to this day feels she scored a victory over a teacher who was down right cruel to her and her friends. The teacher was not harmed but she was drenched with toilet water.
This is why I can believe the kids premeditated the “crime.” When a human is pushed to their breaking point, they will act. Some have little impulse control; some have more. I believe in my heart, after reading the district’s records on this teacher, she was a poor choice for this class. How long had she been teaching?
This is unbelievable, I mean I have heard of students being angry at teachers, but plotting murder?! And the stranger thing is that these kids were 8-10 years old, and some children don’t know what murder really is or don’t understand what it means. Parents need to keep track of what their little kids are doing!
HOLY CRAP! That is freaky! The teacher should have just smack the kids with a ruler or somethin, though. I mean really. 8-9 year olds vs. an adult. But still, YIKES! KIds these days.