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	<title>Comments on: Black no more</title>
	<atom:link href="http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: joel</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74764</link>
		<dc:creator>joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 02:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74764</guid>
		<description>Well, in NY York to avoid being a failing school, they got the administration to let the top scoring class in each grade level opt out of the std testing, since they didn't need it. Naturally, those were the higher scoring white kids.

Voila. Next year NY State was crowing about what a great job it was doing closing the racial gap. They mentioned, at the end of the report, that they didn't know why the grades of the white kids were falling.

Then teachers wonder why taxpayers close their wallets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, in NY York to avoid being a failing school, they got the administration to let the top scoring class in each grade level opt out of the std testing, since they didn&#8217;t need it. Naturally, those were the higher scoring white kids.</p>
<p>Voila. Next year NY State was crowing about what a great job it was doing closing the racial gap. They mentioned, at the end of the report, that they didn&#8217;t know why the grades of the white kids were falling.</p>
<p>Then teachers wonder why taxpayers close their wallets?</p>
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		<title>By: Cal</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74738</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 08:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74738</guid>
		<description>"Sheâ€™s complaining that theyâ€™re not bothering to teach the kid in the first place."

No. Really? Get out. I'm astonished.

"It isnâ€™t an application of the â€œone dropâ€ rule."

Joanne's post is. The switch is, as you say, an innovative way out of a dumb problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sheâ€™s complaining that theyâ€™re not bothering to teach the kid in the first place.&#8221;</p>
<p>No. Really? Get out. I&#8217;m astonished.</p>
<p>&#8220;It isnâ€™t an application of the â€œone dropâ€ rule.&#8221;</p>
<p>Joanne&#8217;s post is. The switch is, as you say, an innovative way out of a dumb problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Roulo</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74718</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Roulo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 17:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74718</guid>
		<description>"&lt;i&gt;And why is the schools grade dependent on race-based reporting anyway? Either the kids are leaning or they arenâ€™t - race shouldnâ€™t enter into it.&lt;/i&gt;"

Race enters into it because historically schools could "hide" failing minority groups in the larger group average.  An example (extreme to make the point):  Consider a school with a 90% graduation rate.  Looks pretty good and is above the national average.  Things looks a *bit* different, though, if the graduation rate is 100% for the white kids who make up 90% of the school and 0% for the black kids who make up the remaining 10%.

NCLB breaks out by race/ethnicity so that situations like the hypothetical one above show that every black child is failing to graduate from the school even though the school's average is quite good on the whole.

Whether we *should* care about things like this is a separate issue, but this is *why* NCLB breaks things out the way it does.

-Mark Roulo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>And why is the schools grade dependent on race-based reporting anyway? Either the kids are leaning or they arenâ€™t - race shouldnâ€™t enter into it.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Race enters into it because historically schools could &#8220;hide&#8221; failing minority groups in the larger group average.  An example (extreme to make the point):  Consider a school with a 90% graduation rate.  Looks pretty good and is above the national average.  Things looks a *bit* different, though, if the graduation rate is 100% for the white kids who make up 90% of the school and 0% for the black kids who make up the remaining 10%.</p>
<p>NCLB breaks out by race/ethnicity so that situations like the hypothetical one above show that every black child is failing to graduate from the school even though the school&#8217;s average is quite good on the whole.</p>
<p>Whether we *should* care about things like this is a separate issue, but this is *why* NCLB breaks things out the way it does.</p>
<p>-Mark Roulo</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Callahan</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74716</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Callahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 16:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74716</guid>
		<description>I  blogged on this story as well last week.  It's a kind of dishonest but clever solution to saving your school from increasing penalties, given that they apparently made AYP in all other areas.  This kind of solution only works when the numbers are at the tipping point AND your progress otherwise is satisfactory.  A school that is failing in every way will not be able to save themselves with this.

http://dancallahan.net/2008/04/27/schools-play-the-game-to-save-themselves</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I  blogged on this story as well last week.  It&#8217;s a kind of dishonest but clever solution to saving your school from increasing penalties, given that they apparently made AYP in all other areas.  This kind of solution only works when the numbers are at the tipping point AND your progress otherwise is satisfactory.  A school that is failing in every way will not be able to save themselves with this.</p>
<p><a href="http://dancallahan.net/2008/04/27/schools-play-the-game-to-save-themselves" rel="nofollow">http://dancallahan.net/2008/04/27/schools-play-the-game-to-save-themselves</a></p>
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		<title>By: Margo/Mom</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74709</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo/Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74709</guid>
		<description>Pretty sad. Actually the National School Board Association (and my own local school board as well) advocates chopping kids up. If a kid is both disabled and African American, they should only count as half a kid in each category (I don't know if this means that no kid could count as more than one third, since each would have an ethnicity, a gender and a socio-economic status--or if they intend this to apply only to the troublesome minorities).

Yes--there is goofiness when it comes to trying to define either race or ethnicity (both pretty arbitrary and inconsequential from a biological standpoint), but given our history of discrimination based on the above, I support the disaggregation of general categories (and their typical self-definitions). Even socio-economic status is at best a proxy measurement--yet yields some pretty important approximations of how well we are doing at meeting educational needs--and based on what.

But cooking the books is cooking the books, plain and simple. Ask some simple questions--what bias is introduced by the actions of these administrators (that of making the school look better on paper), and who benefits (umm--the administrators?) Research inevitably is hampered by bias, but responsible administrators act to minimize it. Unethical administrators introduce it for their own benefit. Forgive the pun, but let's call a spade a spade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty sad. Actually the National School Board Association (and my own local school board as well) advocates chopping kids up. If a kid is both disabled and African American, they should only count as half a kid in each category (I don&#8217;t know if this means that no kid could count as more than one third, since each would have an ethnicity, a gender and a socio-economic status&#8211;or if they intend this to apply only to the troublesome minorities).</p>
<p>Yes&#8211;there is goofiness when it comes to trying to define either race or ethnicity (both pretty arbitrary and inconsequential from a biological standpoint), but given our history of discrimination based on the above, I support the disaggregation of general categories (and their typical self-definitions). Even socio-economic status is at best a proxy measurement&#8211;yet yields some pretty important approximations of how well we are doing at meeting educational needs&#8211;and based on what.</p>
<p>But cooking the books is cooking the books, plain and simple. Ask some simple questions&#8211;what bias is introduced by the actions of these administrators (that of making the school look better on paper), and who benefits (umm&#8211;the administrators?) Research inevitably is hampered by bias, but responsible administrators act to minimize it. Unethical administrators introduce it for their own benefit. Forgive the pun, but let&#8217;s call a spade a spade.</p>
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		<title>By: Zendo Deb</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74706</link>
		<dc:creator>Zendo Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74706</guid>
		<description>It isn't an application of the "one drop" rule.  It is just an interesting - if ironic - way to cook the books. NCLB was supposed to be an objective measure of how a school was doing.  Apparently it isn't, not if the schools can hide their problems with a bit of statistical sleight of hand.

And why is the schools grade dependent on race-based reporting anyway?  Either the kids are leaning or they aren't - race shouldn't enter into it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t an application of the &#8220;one drop&#8221; rule.  It is just an interesting - if ironic - way to cook the books. NCLB was supposed to be an objective measure of how a school was doing.  Apparently it isn&#8217;t, not if the schools can hide their problems with a bit of statistical sleight of hand.</p>
<p>And why is the schools grade dependent on race-based reporting anyway?  Either the kids are leaning or they aren&#8217;t - race shouldn&#8217;t enter into it.</p>
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		<title>By: allen</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74702</link>
		<dc:creator>allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 10:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74702</guid>
		<description>You have to admire the thriftiness and creativity of administrators when covering their own azzes. 

Rather then diagnose and solve a problem they just define it out of existence. Or rather they define it out of existence as a problem for which they're responsible. The weighty intellect who came up with this solution'll probably be rewarded with a promotion. Having solved the problem of having to deal with a problem a promotion's only right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to admire the thriftiness and creativity of administrators when covering their own azzes. </p>
<p>Rather then diagnose and solve a problem they just define it out of existence. Or rather they define it out of existence as a problem for which they&#8217;re responsible. The weighty intellect who came up with this solution&#8217;ll probably be rewarded with a promotion. Having solved the problem of having to deal with a problem a promotion&#8217;s only right.</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74693</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74693</guid>
		<description>I blogged on this same topic, seeking the reconciliation of the beliefs I mentioned in my comment above.  If anyone has ideas....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blogged on this same topic, seeking the reconciliation of the beliefs I mentioned in my comment above.  If anyone has ideas&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: mike curtis</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74686</link>
		<dc:creator>mike curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74686</guid>
		<description>What I really appreciated during my military service was having a published, minimum acceptable level of performance for every position/job.  There were NO sub-categories nor special needs accomodations allowed...you could either do it, or, you could not do it.

What part of "can do"/"can't do" do we misunderstand!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I really appreciated during my military service was having a published, minimum acceptable level of performance for every position/job.  There were NO sub-categories nor special needs accomodations allowed&#8230;you could either do it, or, you could not do it.</p>
<p>What part of &#8220;can do&#8221;/&#8221;can&#8217;t do&#8221; do we misunderstand!?</p>
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		<title>By: JuliaK</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74682</link>
		<dc:creator>JuliaK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/04/30/black-no-more/#comment-74682</guid>
		<description>The irony is, this would just be a return to status quo ante NCLB.  If no one enquires as to the performance of subgroups, no problem!  And if there are no consequences for neglecting to educate a subgroup, once more, no problem!  Of course, the population bearing the cost for this reclassification would be the children...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The irony is, this would just be a return to status quo ante NCLB.  If no one enquires as to the performance of subgroups, no problem!  And if there are no consequences for neglecting to educate a subgroup, once more, no problem!  Of course, the population bearing the cost for this reclassification would be the children&#8230;</p>
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