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	<title>Comments on: Billy Joel, history teacher</title>
	<atom:link href="http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/</link>
	<description>Free-linking and thinking on education by Joanne Jacobs</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nony Mouse</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-78404</link>
		<dc:creator>Nony Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-78404</guid>
		<description>In my AP class, we actually covered the more-recent decades. In our standard classes, in earlier years, our preceding four decades were squeezed into about an hour-and-a-half. This would have been an actual education to some of the kids in my class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my AP class, we actually covered the more-recent decades. In our standard classes, in earlier years, our preceding four decades were squeezed into about an hour-and-a-half. This would have been an actual education to some of the kids in my class.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fordee</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-78388</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fordee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-78388</guid>
		<description>I don't teach US History, but as a World History teacher I might show the video to open a class when we discuss more modern world history.  But, a project on the song?  I don't know if I would go that far.  If so I would have a very strong research based rubric that went into lots of detail about certain aspects of the song &#38; history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t teach US History, but as a World History teacher I might show the video to open a class when we discuss more modern world history.  But, a project on the song?  I don&#8217;t know if I would go that far.  If so I would have a very strong research based rubric that went into lots of detail about certain aspects of the song &amp; history.</p>
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		<title>By: Required Reading at The Core Knowledge Blog</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-78323</link>
		<dc:creator>Required Reading at The Core Knowledge Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-78323</guid>
		<description>[...] Billy Joel, History Teacher at Joanne Jacobs Most ofÂ an 11th grade U.S. history grade for the semester will be determined by the final project: A group presentation on the significance of the lyrics of Billy Joelâ€™s We Didnâ€™t Start the Fire, which lists events and people from 1949-89.Â  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Billy Joel, History Teacher at Joanne Jacobs Most ofÂ an 11th grade U.S. history grade for the semester will be determined by the final project: A group presentation on the significance of the lyrics of Billy Joelâ€™s We Didnâ€™t Start the Fire, which lists events and people from 1949-89.Â  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Johnston</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77992</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77992</guid>
		<description>Using the song as the basis of a historical study of the Cold War period is not a bad idea and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  The song has everything, from political history, "Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again," social history, "Children of Thalidomine," "moonshot," and pop history "Bardo" "punk rock" cola wars.

Now, if the project is simply to recite facts about each item, then yes, the teaching opportunity is lost because the song offers a chance to see how the political, social, pop culture and other forms of history feed off each other, inform and contradict each others.

For example, 1968 was an incredibly tumultuous year, between Dr. King's assassination, RFK's assassination, riots and other distress, but the year ended with a scientific, engineering and exploratory triumph of the Apollo 8 circumnavigation of the moon.  Play those off of each other and you get a wonderful oppotunity.

I like that concept of one commenter, that using the song as poetry and how historical allusions inform poetry as much as methaphor, simile and allegory.  

The secret ingredient is not that the project is done, but how it is used.  Otherwise the project itself is simply neutral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using the song as the basis of a historical study of the Cold War period is not a bad idea and shouldn&#8217;t be dismissed out of hand.  The song has everything, from political history, &#8220;Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again,&#8221; social history, &#8220;Children of Thalidomine,&#8221; &#8220;moonshot,&#8221; and pop history &#8220;Bardo&#8221; &#8220;punk rock&#8221; cola wars.</p>
<p>Now, if the project is simply to recite facts about each item, then yes, the teaching opportunity is lost because the song offers a chance to see how the political, social, pop culture and other forms of history feed off each other, inform and contradict each others.</p>
<p>For example, 1968 was an incredibly tumultuous year, between Dr. King&#8217;s assassination, RFK&#8217;s assassination, riots and other distress, but the year ended with a scientific, engineering and exploratory triumph of the Apollo 8 circumnavigation of the moon.  Play those off of each other and you get a wonderful oppotunity.</p>
<p>I like that concept of one commenter, that using the song as poetry and how historical allusions inform poetry as much as methaphor, simile and allegory.  </p>
<p>The secret ingredient is not that the project is done, but how it is used.  Otherwise the project itself is simply neutral.</p>
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		<title>By: EdWonk</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77916</link>
		<dc:creator>EdWonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 05:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77916</guid>
		<description>Had a professor in Teacher Education School (SDSU Calexico Campus) who used this exact assignment as an sample lesson back in 1993. So it has been around.

I think that it's alright as a WRITING assignment, but NOT as a significant part of a semester grade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had a professor in Teacher Education School (SDSU Calexico Campus) who used this exact assignment as an sample lesson back in 1993. So it has been around.</p>
<p>I think that it&#8217;s alright as a WRITING assignment, but NOT as a significant part of a semester grade.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff the Baptist</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77830</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff the Baptist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77830</guid>
		<description>I had an experience similar to David's.  

When I was in 6th grade, my gifted and talented english class was given an assignment similar to this in order to learn library and research skills.  We broke the song up among several groups and then did our best to figure out each lyrical reference using the resources available to us.  At the time, the song was fresh and the assignment was considered pretty cool.  Plus we got to spend a bunch of class time in the library on our own which was also cool.

It was cool enough that another 6th grade teacher copied it without attribution for her own class and got in trouble for it.  That taught me an unintended lesson about workplace politics that I haven't forgotten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had an experience similar to David&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>When I was in 6th grade, my gifted and talented english class was given an assignment similar to this in order to learn library and research skills.  We broke the song up among several groups and then did our best to figure out each lyrical reference using the resources available to us.  At the time, the song was fresh and the assignment was considered pretty cool.  Plus we got to spend a bunch of class time in the library on our own which was also cool.</p>
<p>It was cool enough that another 6th grade teacher copied it without attribution for her own class and got in trouble for it.  That taught me an unintended lesson about workplace politics that I haven&#8217;t forgotten.</p>
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		<title>By: Devilbunny</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77736</link>
		<dc:creator>Devilbunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77736</guid>
		<description>A friend who graduated HS in '94 mentioned that, in his AP US History class, his teacher assigned the song about a week before the AP exam.  They hadn't had time to study post-WW2 US history, and that pretty well covered it.  Of course, it wasn't for a major portion of the grade.

I agree: pre-Internet, that would have been a hard one to research for most people.  (My dad was older, so I would have had an inside track to the 50s, but most of my friends' parents were born in the early 50s. Anything before around 1965-68 was pretty much a blur to them.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend who graduated HS in &#8216;94 mentioned that, in his AP US History class, his teacher assigned the song about a week before the AP exam.  They hadn&#8217;t had time to study post-WW2 US history, and that pretty well covered it.  Of course, it wasn&#8217;t for a major portion of the grade.</p>
<p>I agree: pre-Internet, that would have been a hard one to research for most people.  (My dad was older, so I would have had an inside track to the 50s, but most of my friends&#8217; parents were born in the early 50s. Anything before around 1965-68 was pretty much a blur to them.)</p>
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		<title>By: NDC</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77715</link>
		<dc:creator>NDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77715</guid>
		<description>Oh, and the incidences that I've heard of for instructional use of this song were for teaching the idea of historical allusions in songs as poetry: not particularly great as assignments go, but about average for anyone teaching pop songs as poetry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and the incidences that I&#8217;ve heard of for instructional use of this song were for teaching the idea of historical allusions in songs as poetry: not particularly great as assignments go, but about average for anyone teaching pop songs as poetry.</p>
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		<title>By: NDC</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77714</link>
		<dc:creator>NDC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77714</guid>
		<description>It's not the kind of assignment that I think should carry a lot of weight in a grade. It seems like the kind of assignment that could be done in about a class period with the power of wikipedia. 

But I will say this in defense of teachers reluctantly giving crappy projects in the the month of May after AP exams: you kind of have to go with what your school culture will support. You might be amazed and/or horrified by the number of schools at which the administration as well as the kids and their parents think that school should just kind of fade out with funzies after spring break. In such a school, woe to the the teacher who holds the students' feet to the fire of actual assignments with rigor and quality.

We'd like to think that the instructional bond would be so powerful and enduring that the kids would just keep working because the teacher was motivating and the kids loved learning. But many of the kids don't seem to see it that way. Often you have to decide to ratchet up the value of the grades so the kids see them as important enough to complete or crank down the importance of the work so it doesn't matter if they don't. Occasionally and bafflingly, some people do both, like the assignment mentioned here, and that IS hard to understand. Even in the worst of circumstances, it seems like it ought to be big grade and actually worth doing in terms of learning or small grade and maybe a little silly but engaging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not the kind of assignment that I think should carry a lot of weight in a grade. It seems like the kind of assignment that could be done in about a class period with the power of wikipedia. </p>
<p>But I will say this in defense of teachers reluctantly giving crappy projects in the the month of May after AP exams: you kind of have to go with what your school culture will support. You might be amazed and/or horrified by the number of schools at which the administration as well as the kids and their parents think that school should just kind of fade out with funzies after spring break. In such a school, woe to the the teacher who holds the students&#8217; feet to the fire of actual assignments with rigor and quality.</p>
<p>We&#8217;d like to think that the instructional bond would be so powerful and enduring that the kids would just keep working because the teacher was motivating and the kids loved learning. But many of the kids don&#8217;t seem to see it that way. Often you have to decide to ratchet up the value of the grades so the kids see them as important enough to complete or crank down the importance of the work so it doesn&#8217;t matter if they don&#8217;t. Occasionally and bafflingly, some people do both, like the assignment mentioned here, and that IS hard to understand. Even in the worst of circumstances, it seems like it ought to be big grade and actually worth doing in terms of learning or small grade and maybe a little silly but engaging.</p>
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		<title>By: Catch Thirty-Thr33</title>
		<link>http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77700</link>
		<dc:creator>Catch Thirty-Thr33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannejacobs.com/2008/06/02/singing-history-with-billy-joel/#comment-77700</guid>
		<description>I was 14 when I first heard this song.  I was already well into history at that point, and it didn't hurt matters that my parents bought me the massive "Chronicle of the 20th Century" for my 14th birthday.  I remember going through the lyrics noting that I knew virtually everything it referenced, and this without the benefit of 9th Grade U.S. History (yet to be taken at that point).  

I would use this song as a shining example of how historical refences can even seep into popular culture; yet another reason to be familiar with, know, and understand history.  However, I cringe at the idea of placing things like this at the center of history lessons.  Believe me, as one who holds a B.A. in History, there is much to history that is dry and painfully dull, YET is quite insightful and revealing, and all too necessary to comprehend and learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was 14 when I first heard this song.  I was already well into history at that point, and it didn&#8217;t hurt matters that my parents bought me the massive &#8220;Chronicle of the 20th Century&#8221; for my 14th birthday.  I remember going through the lyrics noting that I knew virtually everything it referenced, and this without the benefit of 9th Grade U.S. History (yet to be taken at that point).  </p>
<p>I would use this song as a shining example of how historical refences can even seep into popular culture; yet another reason to be familiar with, know, and understand history.  However, I cringe at the idea of placing things like this at the center of history lessons.  Believe me, as one who holds a B.A. in History, there is much to history that is dry and painfully dull, YET is quite insightful and revealing, and all too necessary to comprehend and learn.</p>
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